Conversation with Tyler Leber of Coconut

Tyler Leber

We're not finding bottom of the barrel talent from the Philippines. These are people that we're paying above average for these positions. We're still saving compared to a US-based person, but there's amazing talent that we can find. And I think we're trying to eat our own dog food in that way, right?

We're literally proving that, hey, we've staffed our entire company with the same approach. So you can obviously do this for your company.

Steven Burkhart

Well, hey, everyone. Welcome to the Death to Vanilla podcast, where we're all about just sharing what's different, what's not vanilla that's happening in your business that makes you different, makes you stand out. And I'm excited to be jumping back in the podcast with Tyler here.

And this is like our inaugural reopening of the Death to Vanilla podcast. So I'm excited to share this with you, excited to kick it off with you. And so feel free to just introduce yourself, feel free to brag, pat yourself on the back, whatever. This is the time to do it.

And just tell us a little bit about yourself and Coconut VA Yeah. Yeah. Tyler Leber, based in Arizona, and we've got Coconut VA

Tyler Leber

We've been running that for about three years. We actually rebranded recently just to Coconut. We can't get coconut.com yet. It's about a million dollars, but hopefully someday soon.

But yeah, we've been running that for three years and still growing.

Steven Burkhart

That's awesome. It's actually funny that you mentioned that. It's actually funny that you mentioned that. It's actually funny that you mentioned that because literally today I saw someone else on your team post and it was just Coconut. But like when you guys do a super good job of like tagging your business in your post, which is a phenomenal strategy.

And I was like, wasn't this Coconut VA like literally like days ago? Yes, it was. It really was.

Steven Burkhart

Yeah. That's interesting. So tell us a little bit. So like most people watching this podcast will probably already know who a VA is, but just unpack it briefly. What is a VA?

What are you guys actually providing as a service?

Tyler Leber

Totally. Yeah. And VA is not probably not the best term or it's kind of a limiting term. Some people even think of like Amazon Alexa or Siri as a virtual assistant, more on the virtual aspect, right? But historically and what we've been using recently is more as an outsourced assistant or personal assistant is what a lot of people think of as well.

But again, it's pretty limiting. So we are more just a staffing agency. We'll find people in the Philippines to fill pretty much any remote role at any company. We don't really have much limitation in terms of like industry or anything like that.

We're basically, we've called ourselves like the Indeed before of like hiring from the Philippines. And we're just the staffing agency. We matchmake basically talent to company. Right. No, that's fantastic.

Steven Burkhart

I know like my experience with hiring a VA, which is far before I met you, was, and I kind of thought about it from like a Tim Ferriss four hour work week kind of brain, my like worldview of a VA was someone who basically did like simple admin tasks, you know what I mean?

Or bought gifts for people, booked appointments. Like, so imagine my surprise when I hired like a full on video editor. And I was like, that's a VA. I call that a video editor, but okay.

But you know, that's kind of, yeah.

Steven Burkhart

So it's a broad definition for sure. Yeah, definitely. As far as like, like, I know this is kind of like a ethereal big question, but like, why does Coconut exist? Like what, what did you see in the world that like, you felt like, this was going to solve and motivated you to do all the hard work of starting your own business instead of jumping in somewhere else?

Tyler Leber

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, first off, like, this is, I guess, technically my third business that I've started, really my second big business that I've started. The first one we exited from around 2020, 2021. And around that time is when we obviously were kind of looking to what are we going to do next?

You know, it wasn't a life changing exit. It was a nice exit, but definitely not life changing by any means. And so we knew we needed to come up with something, right? And so we used virtual assistants.

We used talent from the Philippines a lot in our previous company. And a lot of our clients would ask like, oh, okay, you know, who made this report for me? Who made this research report? And we would, you know, introduce our team member who was from the Philippines, like, well, how do I hire them?

Right? Like, and so we would get those questions a lot in that previous company. And so that's where we started. Our search was what, what can be done differently in that space? Could we actually build a company that is doing, you know, things that, that nobody else is, Yeah. Or can we stand out?

And what we noticed is the, honestly, the branding, the positioning of, you know, the brand voice really is where we thought we could stick out in this staffing space. We saw a lot of other staffing companies like BPO is the classic term and industry in the Philippines of what you'll hear. And that's like capital one, us bank customer service reps.

Like they have massive customer service, you know, buildings, right. And just people will, will be doing customer service work there. And that's like the typical staffing agency. It's more corporate feeling.

Uh, and it caters to that, that industry and that client. And so we, you know, we've been working with founders since the beginning. So we wanted to, to build something that was more attractive to founders. And so we, we decided to do coconut and Coconut VA where, uh, in the early days we actually used vacation laptoplesss as one of our slogans.

Uh, so basically trying to help founders delegate more or less like, Hey, you know, founder, you don't have to be wearing all the hats. Like you can find affordable help. Uh, outside of yourself or, you know, your family, your wife or whatever, uh, you can find affordable help outside of, of just yourself.

Even in those early days, we've, you know, pivoted a little bit, uh, since then where we, we focus on slightly bigger companies, uh, just cause that's a little bit of more sustainable business model. Uh, but that that's definitely where, where that coconut vibe came from is, is trying to combat that corporate feel of other agencies.

Steven Burkhart

Yeah. So. Do you find that you still work with founders who are continuing to delegate or have they actually delegated their entire team and now you're actually hiring VAs for middle management? Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

Tyler Leber

So we, we definitely still focus a lot on founders like those that's usually still our main client. Um, they're not so big that they have like their own hiring department or that they've delegated everything. Sure. They're still wearing a few hats, um, for sure, but yeah, more and more we're hiring, uh, executive assistants for the executive team.

Which isn't a full fledged team yet, but definitely the founder, maybe the COO, maybe the CMO, um, and executive assistant is our, our most commonly placed role. But again, you know, we'll fill pretty much any, any role in, in any company. Um, and, and I think our company is actually a great example.

Like we, we only have the three us based founders, uh, in the us, everybody else on our team is based in the Philippines. No, really? Okay. That includes like our, our CEO, CEO, she runs the entire day to day operations in the company. No way. Uh, you know, if you hop on a sales call with us, you're gonna hop on with Judy or Zoe and they're based in the Philippines, but okay.

You know, they have amazing English and, and you know, they're not, and that's, man, that's one topic I'd love to, to go over at, at some point, but you know, we're not finding bottom of the barrel talent from the Philippines. Like these are people that we're paying above average for, for these positions. We're still saving compared to us based person, but there's amazing talent that we can find.

And, and I think we're, we're trying to, to eat our own dog food in that way. Right? Like we're literally proving that, Hey, we've staffed our entire company with the same approach. So like you can obviously do this for, for your company.

Steven Burkhart

For sure. Yeah. It's um, like I've hired a couple different VAs from the Philippines, actually. Yeah. And it's been largely positive experiences. You know, you gotta vet people just like anything else.

Yeah. Totally. Uh, it's not like, because you go to the U S like all of a sudden now everyone's awesome at their job. Right. That is hardly the case. Yeah. Um, but, uh, yeah, there's great people and it's like, you could literally hire someone who has a degree for like what you, what you wouldn't even pay someone to flip a burger here.

Oh, for sure. And like, they're like super qualified. They're more educated than I am. And it's like, yeah, this is crazy.

Tyler Leber

Oh, same. We have a, we have a bar certified lawyer on our team. Yeah. She's not doing law right now, but, but yeah, she's bar certified and she's on our team.

Steven Burkhart

Wow. Amazing. Yeah. Uh, I, I love the globalization of talent. It's, it's a win for everyone. And, um, yeah, it's anyway.

Steven Burkhart

So, so as far as like, is it so not to put words in your mouth, but it sounded like what you were explaining was that your focus on founders is a differentiator. Yeah. Okay. So then is there any way, like, so, so in practice, do you like prepare or vet or like, what's your process in making sure that these are the best fit for founders?

Yeah, definitely. I know that might be a challenging question, but yeah, I mean, it is to some degree, like it depends, right?

Tyler Leber

Like that's the best answer obviously in all cases. Um, but you know, like one, one prime example is executive assistance. Like that's what we most commonly place with founders, uh, our most common customer. And so, you know, there's a lot of different ways that we can vet them.

Uh, every single applicant that comes through our system, we do, you know, all the typical stuff, resumes, uh, we'll also throw in some personality tests as well. Uh, cause a lot of the founders that we deal with, um, my, like go-to question for founders is how many unread emails do you have in your inbox?

Steven Burkhart

And it's always such a telling question, right?

Tyler Leber

Because you get some people that are more on the operator integrator side that like, Email zero or, you know, less than 10, usually that's me. There you go. And that's me as well.

Uh, but literally I'd say 70 to 80% of the other people, it's like, uh, 10,000, 50,000, a hundred thousand. Like I've had, I think three people that have over a hundred thousand unread emails. Yeah. I don't know how you survive that, but those are the people we deal with.

So yeah, we do need to tailor it to, to the individual. And so we'll do personality tests. We'll do that same question on the VA side of, you know, how organized are you? How many unread emails do you have in your inbox?

How do you categorize emails? How do you, you know, manage your own calendar and then yeah, the personality test, uh, rocket fuel. That's a, that's a great methodology that we've used in the past, like, you know, operator and visionary integrator and visionary.

Um, and so, yeah, there, there's a ton of different tests and even hiring tasks we'll do as well. So, you know, this person might have a certain, like our previous company, we did a lot of market research reports. Yeah. Uh, and so we'll do hiring tasks of, Hey, how would you segment this data? Yeah. Uh, and so we'll do hiring tasks of, Hey, how would you segment this data?

And, you know, here's a five minute tutorial on how to do it. Try it out the task for 20 minutes and we'll see how you do just a very basic idea of, of how they work. Yeah. Definitely gotta do that.

Cause, uh, it's all talk until you perform the work.

Steven Burkhart

Right. Exactly. Well, I love that. I love how intentional all that feels of, of just like, like being in both the founder seat yourself and being your primary client that like, there's a level of familiarity with what you know needs to happen. Yeah. From a job that, you know, you're able to provide by making sure those people can do those things.

Steven Burkhart

Right. Right. So, um, as far as like from the growth side, so, you know, I don't know what you are not willing to share as far as like how your growth has been, but it's, we we've talked about privately. It's been really, really good. Yeah. Um, so what has been like the primary driver of growth for you guys?

Like you have probably your business experience. So maybe you learned something in the past you brought in or whatever else, but I'd love to hear like, what has been like, like the real, like the, the, the most impactful thing for your business growth from a sales perspective.

Tyler Leber

Yeah. And, and I mean, I'm very transparent about it. I've been posting on LinkedIn for two, three years now. And like, I try to do almost every day or at least every week, uh, even in the slow times. Um, and, and that actually was a huge driver of growth, uh, especially in the beginning was being authentic on, on LinkedIn. Sure.

I think that's what a lot of most people crave these days. Right. Is that authenticity? Yeah. And maybe, especially in our industry, where it is fairly competitive, uh, a lot of people get cold emails, cold calls, you know, unsolicited LinkedIn messages all the time, all the time.

Right. So, you know, I, can you really differentiate yourself that much by, you know, putting a percentage here, an emoji in the subject line, you know, like all of these little tweaks you can do, or you can do an entirely different approach, which is what we went after, which was more of a content based approach. And so I hardly ever post about virtual assistants on my LinkedIn, uh, and my co-founders, same thing, like they just post about founder life, founder struggles, what we've done to build the company, uh, again, not specific to our offering, but that content of inevitably actually leads to sales because people are just learning more about us and they're familiar with who we are and they get to know us over time.

We're building that interpersonal, you know, relationship. Yeah. Um, and, or parasocial relationship. And so, yeah, in the early days, it, our business was like 50% LinkedIn content. Mm-hmm uh, and then the other 50% was word of mouth.

Yeah. Um, and, and I think that's a pretty good split. You know, you want people to be raving about what you're offering. Yeah. Um, but of course you need net new audience as well. And then that content really helped us.

And then nowadays we're trying to differentiate that some more. So we've been doing a lot of, uh, more value ads. So like webinars, we've been doing like about 10 webinars per month, uh, with different partners that have a similar target market, a similar audience, and then just saying, Hey, what do these people need?

Let's pitch them some value. You know, with no expectation, no commitment. Um, and then again, you know, by doing that, we actually have quite a few people that say, Hey, this was great content.

You know, sometimes we can build it into, Hey, like here's how you, you know, do cold email or here's how you reach out to investors. And then we can say, well, and this is what you would delegate to a virtual assistant if you had one.

Steven Burkhart

Right. And then it's like, well, I would like one. That's great. Okay. You can do it now. Hi there, Steven here, the host of the death and vanilla podcast.

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Suggest everything. So they feel so overwhelmed. They have no choice. Try not to do too much of that. Right? Yeah, it does work.

No, that makes sense. I mean, it's, that's like, from my perspective, because I'm like very much into like Donald Miller building story brand and so on and so forth, like being able to speak to your ideal client in a way that makes them feel heard is, is huge. I mean, like, I think back even to like my retail days where it's like someone comes in and they complain about something. Yeah. They really just want someone to care and feel heard and the way you feel heard, like any argument or, or a challenge communicationally is just repeating back what they said, and they go, oh, they, they.

understood what i was trying to communicate totally and so by having like the founder life type content it makes a lot of sense you know what i mean you're speaking to the founders they they feel understood they feel heard they know that you know yeah the things yeah and and and by that you become a trusted trusted partner so that's awesome i'm glad this worked out uh content is challenging it is it is it is challenging even to someone who uh makes it um so on the flip side what has been

Steven Burkhart

like the biggest challenge with sales like has there been like things that you tried that didn't work out or like things you're maybe even the currently in the midst of testing that you'd be willing to share yeah totally i mean especially early on like i said

Tyler Leber

we were focusing on pretty small founders right and they would have you know just themselves or maybe a team of like five up to five people yeah and that's difficult because you know we want to help those people they're they're in a position where they need a lot of help but the sale is is difficult because they don't have a lot of cash usually uh and if they have funding it's not a lot of funding or they'll they're going to be running out of funding eventually right sure and so the churn was pretty high with that clientele and it's always tough because it's a target market that you really want to serve you really oh yeah bleeding heart for sure yeah but it's also not really the money maker yeah um so we we have gone more up market over time uh where you know they have probably at least 500k of annual revenue um but they're still fairly small they still need to be able to make money and they need to be able to make money and they need a lot of help they're still

building out their team for sure and then so we can step in and say hey we'll we'll find vet hire somebody for you deal with all of that hiring and overseas payroll and everything we'll you know take care of all of that headache that problem is still very potent for them yeah um whereas even bigger founders it might not be as big of an issue at some point because now they have a hiring team or a hiring coordinator yeah you know human resource manager like they've already got that infrastructure built out uh so i think there is really a sweet spot where where we can definitely play a part yeah that makes a lot of

Steven Burkhart

sense so um obviously there's probably a lot of factors that go into it but like so are you saying that like um you know for people who are listening they're like oh am i ready i don't know if i'm ready like obviously they should reach out to you but like is that 500k a pretty solid indicator that like you're ready like where i mean i guess i'm curious just personally yeah like where is the breakdown let's say you're making like 350 right instead of 500 like is it just that like everyone you hire is like you're making like 350 should make you money right so theoretically like you should be fine but like where is the investment slash the payoff piece breaking down when you're in that price point yeah yeah i i would say like 500k is is

Tyler Leber

kind of the ideal minimum we'll actually go down to even if you have like 100 to 250k of annual revenue we'll still take you on as a client sure anything below that it's like well you know it's just not going to work like you need to just get a little bit further yeah um and for to answer your question like i would say that the the main like driver of whether or not like that relationship is going to be successful or not is more of how much you have built out in terms of systems and processes so that's one issue that we also ran into with these smaller founders is that they would say hey i want to make more money let's hire a salesperson so we would staff them an sdr but then it's like hey go make me money it's like okay well what do you want me to do and then they come back two weeks later and complain like

well the sdr you gave me is crap like they haven't done anything it's like right well what you know did you have any systems for them do you know what works do you know it doesn't work so a lot of people wouldn't wouldn't take into account the testing and and uh the testing cost really trying to figure out what works in their market um and so yeah i mean that's just specific to to sales but it also goes for executive assistance as well like there's a certain point where you get to a certain size and you have enough infrastructure built out where we can just plug somebody in and and it makes sense and they just you know hit the ground running um but we've noticed that before that revenue amount it's still a little bit all kind of hectic pretty up in the air and those relationships sometimes they work really well uh because everything falls into place but then sometimes nothing

Steven Burkhart

falls into place and they just get frustrated yeah the roller coaster because like like well ideally income was always going up but like life happens and the economy happens and yeah covet happens or whatever like you know whatever there's there's things outside of that can make affect that so the role there's always like a little bit of a roller coaster well if the roller coaster is up here right exactly that's not such a bad thing when the roller coaster is like uh i can't pay anyone exactly or we're doing pretty good like that's a rough roller coaster to be on it is um i can i can speak from experience on that one so it's uh it's definitely challenging and i could i could totally see that um i've definitely like had very similar challenges i've had some more difficulties with making videos and i took it on the road and worked on it and i'll explain that i've

had some things that i've had with my friends um you know like pretty après-courses like on the way to get me to where i connected with new teams and stuff like that which is also something that you know what we call the job is finding a way to work into it yeah i'm having a lot of fun hanging in there and doing some work um and there's some things like i didn't really have time to share those things but like doing and like if you don't know any of the sales things there's probably like plenty of other things about your business yeah that you don't have figured out and don't have clarity on that's going to make it really hard for them to make the other decisions yeah exactly to bring the clarity exactly you know like if you don't know what your ideal client is they can't go sell them right which no matter it means no matter what system they build yeah it's not going to serve you well yeah yeah and you get what you pay for as well like i think especially

Tyler Leber

in those early stages somebody wants to hire a ten dollar an hour str and they want them to to build out the entire sales you know go to market and like that's just that that's not a realistic expectation so yeah you can find those people and like i think we do staff some of those people at the upper like ranges of what we staff is like 16 to 24 an hour sure and like yeah 24 an hour person they could probably build out you know a system for you they're more like a trailblazer yeah um but when you get to the lower ends of the range it's more about somebody coming in and just fulfilling what you've already built for them that system yeah and then they can maintain run that system forever um but yeah so just kind

Steven Burkhart

of aligning those expectations for sure well yeah well it's like like i'm you know they're either executing yeah or they're exactly they're building yeah right and that's really the difference like on the lower end you get a great executor which could literally be like oxygen for your business or at least for you is that especially like with an executive assistant assistant you have like right buy back the time like you said the i love the example the laptopless which is literally like such a thing yeah and uh yeah yeah so i think that's wonderful um as far as you kind of already answered one of my other questions so i'll jump to this one uh

Steven Burkhart

as far as like from your business experience both from this one and from something else what do you think as like a business owner for other business owners who are watching what has been like the biggest lesson that you've learned in growing business yeah yeah i

Tyler Leber

mean i think there's a lot of like cliches you can use for sure sure um but don't it's death of vanilla yeah that's

Steven Burkhart

true that's a vanilla there you go okay i'll shy away from those but uh no i mean i would say like just finding

Tyler Leber

the right people uh for the right time of your of your business or of your life um i've worked with a few different you know partners few different employees and um i think that's that's definitely the key is just surrounding yourself with the right people um because you know like like we talked about with the unread emails you know there are people that just have a certain personality yeah and it's like you know you see those like deep sea welding jobs right like to me that sounds awful and horrible and somebody else that sounds exciting and challenging right yeah and then like what i do you know i'm in like spreadsheets all day yeah but my co-founder would hate that like that's you know a nightmare to him right so just finding the right people for the right tasks at the right time like i think that's that's the key that's the biggest thing i've learned yeah because i think i put a lot of pressure on myself and i think that's the biggest thing i've learned is that like you hear that all the time so you also think like hey i need

to be the best at each one of these and like if i can't run this business as like a one-man show like i'm not a great founder yeah and i think a lot of people i i think a lot of people a lot of founders suffer under that because they hold themselves to a pretty high standard um and i we always try to push back against that and that that was part of the vacation laptopless methodology is like you don't have to be in your business like that ego and say hey this is what i'm really good at and you know this person could actually take off 20 hours of work you know that i'm doing needlessly right like yeah you might think you have to but then you realize like hey this is a monotonous task it's not client facing whatever it might be uh that you can outsource to to somebody else or maybe it's a

you know you're coding your own platform right and it would be better to just hand that off to somebody the roi is going

Steven Burkhart

to be bigger by having somebody else do that instead of you yeah yeah man i resonate with that like so much i was literally journaling about it like yesterday or the day before was like yeah i feel all this pressure that i need to be like smarter and no more and just shove more knowledge into my head and it's like man it's like i won't feel this way because it's like i can't be like a marketing analyst right and a brand strategist and a videographer and grow my business and train people and it's like dude and i'm like and there's a lot of stuff that yeah i mean it's an amazing thing that i learned i'm like i can't do this stuff at all

it's like it's the two of us and then i was like yeah i've got this show uh i've got this project um i've got some amazing stuff that i've got my own show that i don't care what it is right so and so and so and then we've just started just being like oh my god i'm gonna have to do this because i've got to be the best i can i've got to be the best that i can and i'm like yeah that's that's awesome i'm gonna start this project okay thank you so much for your time that's awesome thank you so much for having me for sure ok a meeting and it was for a new client that we brought on and like i had done pretty much all my tasks for the day and she was handling pretty much everything because we didn't have much to shoot so i didn't have much to do and she was doing some post-production stuff and i was like i guess i'm done you know yeah and it reminded me of this um i can't remember if it was a video or one in one of the books of mike mccallowitz i don't know if you ever heard of him he did like running a business like clockwork surge profit first stuff like that a lot of like business operating

stuff yeah and he said one of the toughest things a founder experiences is like that loss of being needed yeah yeah and and it feels super like uncomfortable not only from like an emotional standpoint but also just like it makes you feel like you should be doing something and you're not right but actually what's happening is the healthiest healthiest thing for your business yes and uh so true man i can't wait to feel that someday because i'm wearing all of the almost all the hats yeah so no and i agree and

Tyler Leber

i i've we've definitely suffered from that many times like you know we we pitch a lot of these principles but we also suffer from that often like you want to feel needed you want to feel important you want to feel special you want to feel like you're the only one that can do that job or you're the best person for that job and i think for a few things that's probably true yeah um but i think founders because most founders i think do have to start out wearing all of the hats yes then they just hold on to that for maybe too long or just get too stuck in that mindset and then it's hard when they have to like start letting some go it's like well actually you know it's kind of hard right emotionally it's kind of difficult uh to kind of get back to just what you are good at uh because you are trusting now your baby you know

Steven Burkhart

parts of your baby to other people so that can be really really hard to do oh yeah and there's also all the other complexities come along with that which is like how do you teach someone to do the thing that you've been doing right when you don't even remember how to do it like you don't consciously even know the steps that you do yeah yeah you know so true yeah which is so much a part of like you brought up uh rocket fuel but like that whole traction methodology of like uh putting together your processes is literally just documenting them like yeah you're going to sit down on board a client just record it yeah and like now you have your process you know and put it in writing or whatever it is you got to do to train other people it's like yeah there's so many things you do on autopilot that now you're trying to teach someone else and i think that's actually one of the challenging things about a va is like you actually for the first time have to teach someone else how to do a portion of what you do and that's a skill set it is but once you do that it's like all this

front-loaded i mean it's like running a business yeah running a business is a bunch of front-loaded effort that eventually pays off yeah it's the same thing with onboarding employees like it's you know you put a lot of investment and time into the train them make sure it's the right person get them you know moving testing them on projects and all of a sudden it's like man i spent all this time like i could have just done it myself and it'd been faster i literally hear people tell me that and it's like that's like a way to do it with no time you're like you know it's like a way to do it with no you want to still be doing that same task or you want to move into like a money-making task or just freaking enjoying yourself like heaven forbid a founder would enjoy themselves um you know outside of just slaving away so yeah that's so true i love cool so where can people connect with you so obviously you're huge on linkedin but um uh just you know if that's a good place just kind of let them know where you can be found and uh or anything you want them to do your call to action

Tyler Leber

yeah i'm a call to action well yeah so i mean reach out you know i mean my email tyler coconut dot com feel free to email me i i have an executive assistant so my inbox is pretty clean which is great uh but yeah connect with me on linkedin Tyler Leber i've got a little coconut next to my name uh and then also yeah call to action what we've been we've been trying this out recently where we do a free trial so 40 hours of free work basically oh so you get to we find vet somebody for you pair them up with you you actually get to work with them for you know a week full-time or two weeks part-time and then you get to see if it's a good fit and if not totally fine but right it is then we get to work together long term i like that build my confidence exactly sweet well thank you all for

Steven Burkhart

watching appreciate you being a part of this episode thank you for being a guest and thank you for being the one that kicks it all off i'm excited yeah and uh yeah thank you thank you make sure you're walking your talk is constant